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Talk:Jiren vs Superman/@comment-1759346-20190407010341
However, Jiren was stated by Supreme Kai to be more powerful than anyone he and the Universe 7 warriors have ever faced, which should make him more powerful than Infinite Zamasu, which also confirmed that Jiren is Beyond Multi-Universal and fourth dimensional I wish people would just stop with Dragonball Super vs DC Comics. The same arguments and the same, awful logic get regurgitated. The same problems come up: * let's figure out which Superman would be "fair" to use for a fight and by "fair" I mean which one could I reasonably argue would lose to the character I would like to win here * The Tournament of Power is an inconsistent mess of fight scenes where Goku and Vegeta only seem to run out of power when the plot deems it necessary - it is difficult to take "Jiren can break the universe" seriously when Vegeta can blow himself up to stop Toppo and lose all of his power then immediately power back up to Super Saiyan Blue, and when Frieza can apparently give Goku enough energy to let him power back up into Blue and fight Jiren on the same footing as before * There is much debate to be had on the "void" being "infinite" but I'm far from convinced that it actually was; it's like hyperbole doesn't exist as far as arguments that vindicate the strength of Dragonball Super characters are concerned * Same deal with Zamasu and his "infinite-infiniteness" * Same deal with "Goku almost broke the universe in an extremely specific circumstance that never came up again and contradicts everything we see later in Super, but hey, Elder Kai the WISEST AND MOST TRUSTWORTHY CHARACTER IN DRAGONBALL WHO IS NEVER WRONG ABOUT ANYTHING confirmed it so CLEARLY everyone who can match or beat Goku can do that too." * Jiren broke Hit's time stop even though the manga makes it clear that Hit's time stop fails against stronger opponents, and the anime makes it clear that Hit was running out of juice - but who cares, Jiren is stronger than time! It's not even fun to see Dragonball characters win anymore. It always comes off as high-balling the crap out of Super. At least back in the pre-Super days people who said "Goku is 100 times stronger than he was when Freeza could blow up a planet so Super Saiyan 4 Goku could blow up the universe!" were mocked. But here we are: * Goku and Beerus almost broke the universe * Goku was in SSG * In SSB Goku is a "universe buster" (cuz bustin makes him feel gooood!) * In SSB Kaioken if we think about the multiplier which was confirmed to exist by uuhhhh well it exists because I say so - Goku must be able to break several universes * Ah but he can't beat Jiren or Goku Black, so they must be able to break universes HARDER * Jiren can no-sell a time stop, so Goku must be somewhat capable of that * Ultra Instinct hassled Jiren, so UI means Goku can outdo time and doesn't fraid of anything * Jiren beat UI and someone vaguely stated he "shook an infinite realm" so he must be unbeatable! * Mastered UI let Goku mollywhop Jiren so he must be able to break ALL THE UNIVERSES It's like two children going "no, my superhero is better because he has all of your superhero's powers" and "no, my hero's better because he has those powers too, and yours, multiplied by 2!"